Introduction
In this episode of Natter with Ne, host Niamh sits down with Brian R. King, a neurodivergent relationship coach and writer whose work centers on compassion, authenticity, and resilience. Together they explore purpose, connection, Buddhism, and what it means to build a kinder world—especially when life keeps throwing curveballs.
This conversation moves from Viktor Frankl to community art, from trauma to humor, and from pain to purpose—all through the lens of lived neurodivergence and hard-earned wisdom.
Questions answered in this conversation
How did Viktor Frankl’s story shape Brian’s sense of purpose?
Can everyone find a life purpose, or do we choose it?
What role does compassion play in connecting people who feel guarded?
How does storytelling help us make meaning from pain?
How can we practice resilience without burning out?
How has Buddhism helped Brian live with chronic illness and daily pain?
What does it take to build genuine support systems?
How can reframing our stories change how we see ourselves?
Transcript
[00:00]
Introductions and first impressions
Niamh: Hello and welcome to this episode of Natter with Ne. Today I have the wonderful Brian R. King, a neurodivergent relationship coach, with me to share his story and talk about his attitude to life. Welcome, Brian.
Brian: Thank you so much, Ne. It’s thrilling to have this one-on-one conversation. I’m used to seeing you in larger groups online, but this is the first time it’s just been the two of us. I’m looking forward to it.
[00:30]
Viktor Frankl’s influence on purpose
Niamh: We do cross paths online quite a bit. When you filled in the application, you said Viktor Frankl was one of your greatest inspirations. Tell me why.
Brian: His seminal book Man’s Search for Meaning describes his time in a concentration camp. He discovered that those who found a reason to hang on—a sense of purpose—were the ones who survived. The people who lost hope didn’t.
His purpose was to survive so he could tell his story and make sure it never happened again. He gave himself a mission bigger than himself—big enough to hold on to. So when I start sliding into self-pity, I remember him and think, get off this horse, find a better perspective.
[01:15]
Choosing a purpose
Niamh: Do you think we all have a purpose, or is it something we find?
Brian: A purpose is something we choose. For me it’s about deciding what big problem I want to help solve. I have autism and ADHD, and so do my three boys. The world can be brutal for kids like them. My purpose is to help build a more compassionate world for them to live in.
Niamh: So you’ve got to become that kind of person—it can’t just be talk.
Brian: Exactly.
[02:00]
Compassion as a ripple effect
Niamh: That compassion ripples out, doesn’t it? When we’re more compassionate, it helps everyone.
Brian: Absolutely. Yet most of what I see online is isolation: memes saying leave me alone, don’t knock on my door. It’s like the next person has become icky.
Niamh: Yes—it shows how disconnected we’ve become.
Brian: Right. That’s why I emphasize connection—being mindful and present with each other.
[02:40]
Storytelling as connection
Niamh: One reason I started this podcast was to connect through story. People tell me, I don’t have a story. And I say, Of course you do. Remember when you told your friend about going shopping yesterday? That’s a story.
Brian: Exactly. Some people think their stories aren’t worth telling because they compare themselves to others.
Niamh: And sometimes, the meaning we give our stories becomes our purpose, don’t you think?
Brian: Absolutely. The meaning we assign to our experiences shapes how we see ourselves.
[03:25]
The stories we tell ourselves
Brian: Two people can live the same event and write very different stories about it. One might say, “We just weren’t a good fit.” Another might say, “They must hate me.” That inner narration changes everything.
Niamh: Yes. And thinking about Viktor Frankl again—living through that horror and still finding meaning—do you think that takes a special kind of person?
Brian: He was a psychiatrist, so he had tools, but there’s no manual called How to Survive a Concentration Camp. I imagine he was already a meaning-maker before that experience.
[04:10]
Curiosity and nuance
Brian: I’ve always been curious—almost obsessively so. Over time that’s made me good at spotting nuance, things other people miss. Like a natural athlete still needs practice, I’ve honed that curiosity until it became skill.
Niamh: So even natural ability needs practice.
Brian: Exactly. Practice keeps you proficient.
[04:45]
Purpose as fuel for perseverance
Niamh: You mentioned having ADHD and autism. How does having a purpose help you day to day?
Brian: It keeps me going when my brain glitches out. Some days I want to think but can’t. Or I want to write but the words won’t come. Before, I’d decide I wasn’t cut out for it. Now I tell myself, it’s just a storm—it’ll pass. When clarity returns, I jump back in.
[05:25]
Riding out the storm
Niamh: I relate to that. I was diagnosed with depression years ago, and one of the affirmations that stuck with me is “This too will pass.” It’s saved me many times.
Brian: Exactly. Our brains throw out negative thoughts faster than we can catch them. Letting them drift by instead of wrestling them is key.
[06:00]
The meditation misconception
Niamh: When I first started meditating, I thought I had to clear my mind completely. Then I realized I don’t have to make the thoughts go away. I can just not get on every bus that passes.
Brian: Great analogy. That’s the real skill—observing thoughts without hopping on for the ride. If your mind goes clear, enjoy it, but that’s not the goal. People make it harder by thinking they have to “achieve” emptiness.
[06:45]
Watching your thoughts with compassion
Niamh: I’ve learned I can choose which thoughts to follow.
Brian: Yes. And when you catch a dark one—like I’m worthless—you can pause and ask, Where did that come from? Maybe it traces back to an old embarrassment. Now you can revisit it with compassion instead of shame.
[07:20]
Practice and patience
Niamh: That takes practice though. You can’t just follow steps from a meme.
Brian: Exactly. And the same goes for purpose—it takes practice too. You don’t land on it right away. It evolves as you do.
[07:55]
Evolving purpose
Brian: At first, purpose might be people-pleasing—wanting validation. Over time you realize your purpose has to matter deeply to you, even if others don’t approve.
Niamh: Yes—something so real to you that no committee can vote it down.
Brian: Right. You’d keep doing it even if people called it stupid.
[08:35]
Hope and humanity
Niamh: Thinking again of Viktor Frankl—his purpose kept him alive, and hopefully his work helps keep humanity from repeating that history. Though sometimes it feels like we’re edging close.
Brian: Unfortunately, yes. There are monsters in the world—but also countless kind, compassionate people who aren’t being seen. The world feels disconnected and fearful.
[09:15]
Disconnection and fear
Niamh: Especially in the States—it seems leaders thrive on making people suspicious of each other.
Brian: They do. Then people gather in silos, and hostility intensifies.
Niamh: And social media amplifies it.
Brian: Exactly. Echo chambers validate even bad ideas.
[09:50]
Planting seeds online
Brian: Those of us with platforms try to plant small seeds online—reminders that another way is possible. If enough people contemplate that, maybe change follows.
Niamh: I avoid the news for the same reason. Too much fear-mongering. I wish there were a news outlet that only shared positive stories.
Brian: I think one exists somewhere—it’s worth a Google.
[10:30]
Celebrating small kindnesses
Niamh: I’ll look. I love hearing about acts of generosity instead of crimes. Over here, people knit decorative toppers for post boxes—Easter bunnies, nativity scenes, even memorial soldiers.
Brian: That’s fantastic. In my town local artists paint fire hydrants—Darth Vader, R2-D2, flowers. It adds so much joy.
[11:05]
Art and community spirit
Niamh: That sounds so uplifting. Ours have to stay red, but the idea’s beautiful.
Brian: It invites people to feel invested in their community—I made this for you; enjoy it. Sadly, many towns only gather for carnivals that sell fried food and cheap thrills.
[11:40]
The power of shared creativity
Niamh: We have something called The Community Brain run by Robin Hutchinson. They host festivals based on his stories—like King Soup, where everyone brings a leek and a potato to make community soup together.
Brian: That’s wild—in the best way.
Niamh: And a Sardine Festival where we parade to the river pretending to catch fish. It’s brilliant, but only a small part of the community joins in.
[12:25]
Community as story
Brian: That would be fascinating to experience once—especially hearing participants describe how it felt before, during, and after. Sharing that might draw more people in.
Niamh: Yes. It’s nice to have something that feels personal yet belongs to everyone.
Brian: Exactly. And storytelling does that too—it connects us through shared humanity.
[13:00]
Stories as mirrors
Niamh: That’s why I invite people onto this podcast. Hearing another person’s story—even an ordinary one—can flip a switch inside us.
Brian: Absolutely. One simple metaphor can change someone’s life. My dad once said something that shaped my entire work ethic.
[13:35]
Lessons from Brian’s father
Brian: He owned a security and fire-alarm business. I was helping him install a system, and he kept checking that a pull-box was perfectly level. I got impatient and said, “It’s fine!” He looked at me and said, Why do a bad job when you can do a good one?
That single line stuck forever.
Niamh: Amazing how one sentence can change everything.
[14:10]
The ripple of small moments
Brian: I once told him how much that line meant. He seemed surprised—he has self-worth struggles—but it really influenced me.
Niamh: Little comments can be pivotal.
Brian: Exactly. Though I joke that there’s financial incentive in doing a bad job if it means repeat business.
[14:45]
Effort, failure, and risk
Niamh: Most of us try to do our best, but fear gets in the way—fear of failing, tripping, or looking foolish.
Brian: Yes. We want the praise of doing well without the risk of falling.
Niamh: I feel that in business too—how far do I go? What if it fails? We catastrophize: I’ll be humiliated, ruined. But usually people forget within a week.
Brian: Exactly. Everyone’s busy with their own chaos.
[15:30]
Turning failure into fertilizer
Niamh: But we don’t forget—we collect our failures like trophies.
Brian: Right. We treat them like our résumé when they’re really our training ground. The real résumé is what you did with the mistakes. That’s how you become resourceful—by turning the poop into fertilizer.
Niamh: Love that.
[16:05]
Purpose as motivation through struggle
Niamh: Purpose keeps us moving through that, doesn’t it?
Brian: Exactly. When you’re stuck in the mud, purpose is what lets you find your footing again. Resilience and resourcefulness go hand in hand.
Niamh: Yes—but resilience isn’t burnout.
Brian: No. Real resilience includes rest. You can’t run on empty.
[16:45]
Introducing Buddhism
Niamh: You’ve mentioned before that you follow Buddhism. How did that come about?
Brian: I had cancer when I was eighteen—my graduation gift from high school. My family was deeply dysfunctional: reactive, insulting, emotionally shut down. When I got sick, vulnerability wasn’t tolerated.
[17:20]
Isolation and searching for meaning
Brian: This was the late ’80s—no internet, no support network. I felt completely alone, furious, depressed, and terrified. My doctors were vague about my prognosis. I started walking to the local library between chemo sessions, desperate for something that made sense.
That’s where I discovered books on philosophy, Taoism, and Buddhism.
[17:55]
Letting go of the past
Brian: I kept reading about not clinging to the past, and that hit me hard because I just wanted my old life back. The teachings said, you can’t. The only power is in the present. I realized my suffering came from wishing reality were different.
Niamh: Yes—comparing everything to how it “should” be makes the present miserable.
Brian: Exactly.
[18:30]
A lifelong practice
Brian: In the early ’90s I found a Zen Buddhist group run by an American teacher. I studied for a couple of years, got initiated, and have followed the path ever since. It’s helped me heal old trauma and practice kindness toward myself when I stumble.
Niamh: It sounds like it keeps you anchored in the present.
Brian: It does.
[19:00]
Turning Mistakes Into Growth
Brian: The person who keeps falling, learning, and getting back up — that’s resourceful. That’s who I respect. I always tell people: learn to turn your mistakes into fertilizer.
Niamh: I love that image.
Brian: Because that’s how growth happens.
[19:25]
Purpose Pulls You Forward
Niamh: And it’s purpose that keeps us going through that, isn’t it?
Brian: Exactly. When you get stuck in the mud, purpose is the rope that helps you find footing again. Resilience and resourcefulness work together — you fall, you learn, you get back up.
[19:55]
Healthy Resilience and Rest
Niamh: I always remind people that resilience isn’t burnout. It’s not about grinding endlessly. Good resilience includes rest.
Brian: Absolutely. Self-care is part of resilience. You can’t move forward on an empty tank.
[20:15]
Discovering Buddhism Through Illness
Niamh: You’ve said you follow Buddhism. How did that start for you?
Brian: I was diagnosed with cancer at eighteen — my “graduation gift” from high school. My family was dysfunctional, very reactive. When I got sick, there was no emotional support. If I tried to talk about my feelings, I was told to “get over it.”
[20:55]
Isolation and Search for Meaning
Brian: This was the late ’80s, before the internet. I had no access to peers or support groups. I was furious, depressed, scared. The doctors were vague about my prognosis.
When I felt well enough between chemo sessions, I’d walk to the local library and read everything I could find — philosophy, psychology, self-help. That’s where I discovered Taoism and Buddhism.
[21:40]
Letting Go of the Past
Brian: I was clinging to the idea of getting my “old life” back, but those teachings showed me that the past isn’t something you can hold onto. You have to let it go.
They taught me the power of being present — of finding meaning in this moment instead of grasping for a future that might not come.
[22:20]
Applying Eastern Philosophy
Brian: The things upsetting me were all tied to the past and future — anger over what was lost, fear of what might happen. Learning to stay in the present was exactly what I needed.
Later, in the early ’90s, I found a Zen temple run by an American Zen master. I studied with him for a few years, took initiation, and I’ve followed that path ever since.
[23:00]
Healing Through Mindfulness
Brian: Buddhism gave me tools to face trauma, to keep forgiving myself for tripping through life, and to keep returning to kindness. It’s helped me stay grounded while pursuing my purpose.
Niamh: It sounds like it’s really anchored you.
Brian: Completely.
[23:25]
Living With Chronic Illness
Brian: Physically, I deal with a lot. I’m in pain daily. After chemo I developed Ehlers-Danlos syndrome — a connective-tissue disorder. It affects everything: ligaments, muscles, even the organs. My body’s basically held together with weak thread.
And on top of that, I have multiple sclerosis.
[24:00]
Finding Humor in Hardship
Niamh: That’s a lot to handle.
Brian: Yeah — I like to joke that I’m lucky that way. I work from bed most of the time. I don’t get out much, so I spend my energy going inward — digging into purpose, gratitude, and curiosity.
[24:30]
Balancing Gratitude and Grief
Brian: Some days, the pain wins. I’m human. The key is balance — leaving room for gratitude while still allowing the hard feelings. Sometimes I want more. Sometimes life feels unfair.
But I never want to live in the mindset that my life isn’t good enough. There’s too much worth noticing.
[25:10]
Recognizing What Still Works
Niamh: Your body might not cooperate, but your mind certainly does.
Brian: Thank goodness for caffeine and omega-3s. They keep the lights on upstairs.
[25:30]
Building a Support Network
Niamh: I know from following you online that you have great support.
Brian: I do. My family and community mean everything, but that didn’t happen by luck. It’s the result of years of relationship-building and continuous self-work.
Entitlement doesn’t bring you support — effort does.
[26:00]
Choosing Energy Wisely
Niamh: And if someone constantly complains or resists change, people drift away.
Brian: Exactly. Sympathy has its place, but not as a lifestyle. If someone never takes advice or makes effort, eventually people stop showing up.
[26:30]
The Role of Empathy
Niamh: I think we all need empathy, though — just enough to feel held so we can move forward.
Brian: Perfectly said. Feeling safe to move forward is everything. My spouse has been incredible that way — creating space for me to go deep into hard emotions without judgment. That’s rare.
[27:05]
Safe Relationships and Healing
Brian: Having someone who can hold that kind of emotional space makes all the difference. Some people go their entire lives never finding it.
Niamh: I don’t think I have yet.
Brian: Sometimes you’re ready to heal but just don’t have the right environment. Then life throws you a situation that forces the work — because pushing it down only makes it worse.
[27:45]
Climbing Out of the “Woe Is Me” Mindset
Niamh: For someone stuck in that “woe is me” place, what would you say?
Brian: Start with your story. Ask: “What am I telling myself is happening right now?” If the story is “No matter what I do, nothing works,” that’s the lens you’re living through.
Then ask, “What are my options today?” Most people discover they still have some.
[28:30]
Facing Excuses and Limits
Brian: When you challenge that story, excuses start popping up: “You don’t understand, I’m different.” Sometimes that’s true — some things really are out of reach. But many limits are imagined.
[28:55]
Redefining Worth
Brian: I can’t do everything physically, but that doesn’t mean I have no worth. I used to think my value came from being strong or athletic. Losing that forced me to redefine success.
[29:20]
Reframing Possibility
Brian: My wife and I once dreamed of traveling and hiking. When my body declined, I thought I’d failed her. Then I found Instagram accounts of couples where one partner used a wheelchair — living full, joyful lives.
It showed me life could still be rich and connected, just different.
[30:00]
Hope Through Representation
Brian: Seeing that representation gave me hope. Before that, I thought my future was rejection. Now I know that possibility still exists — it just looks different.
[30:25]
The Danger of the “Poopy Mindset”
Niamh: That perspective shift is huge.
Brian: It is. When you’re stuck in what I call the “poopy mindset,” you only smell the stink. You think that’s all life is.
Niamh: Laughs That’s a perfect image.
Brian: Yeah — you need a holy hand sometimes to pull you out and remind you the world doesn’t actually smell that bad.
[31:05]
Changing Perspective Through Connection
Niamh: Sometimes all it takes is seeing someone else’s story — or hearing an interview like this — to shift perspective.
Brian: Exactly. When you see someone living what you thought was impossible, it opens a window.
[31:35]
Returning to Purpose
Niamh: And having a purpose beyond yourself helps too.
Brian: Definitely. If your purpose is bigger than your pain, it keeps you moving.
[31:55]
Everything Becomes Fertilizer
Brian: Even the hard stuff becomes useful. Like we said — the flies will come, they’ll pick away at the mess, and eventually it all turns into fertilizer. Nothing stays waste forever unless you choose to sit in it.
[32:25]
Closing Reflections
Niamh: That’s such a great way to put it.
Brian: Purpose, compassion, resilience — they’re all connected. You nurture one, and the others grow too.
[32:50]
Wrapping Up
Niamh: This has been amazing, Brian. I could talk to you all day.
Brian: Likewise. This has been a lot of fun — you ask thoughtful questions.
[33:10]
Gratitude and Goodbyes
Niamh: Thank you. Maybe you’ll come back again sometime.
Brian: Anytime. I’d love that.
Niamh: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Brian. And to everyone listening, I’ll include Brian’s details below if you’d like to connect with him.
Brian: Thank you, Ne.
Key Takeaways
Purpose isn’t found — it’s practiced and refined.
Resilience includes rest and self-care.
Meaning-making transforms suffering into growth.
Compassion connects us even when the world feels divided.
Every story, no matter how small, can shift a life.
Thanks for being you,
Brian